Gaming Theory

“They could look for just such a shadow as Corwin’s sword. However, it would not be the real Greyswandir. There is only one of those and Corwin already has it. And the copy that was found would lack the Pattern abilities that have been incorporated into the true sword of that name. And here is the thing, that is actually in the rules. And more importantly, it’s explicit in the books.”

– This is inconsistent with the reflections of Pattern, however. Greyswandir is considered to be the most powerful sword in existence. In game terms, we cannot imagine any sword more powerful than that one. The books talk about only Greyswandir. You will have to tell me the book and page number that deals with the reflections of the book because I double checked it all and couldn’t find it. What I’m saying is this: if the Pattern can create other Patterns that possess attributes of the Pattern in it as well as Broken Patterns that are incredibly powerful in their own right, then it stands to reason that the ultimate sword in existence should be able to have its own reflections that would mirror something of its power as well.

-Michael Zack, Amber Diceless RPG Yahoo!Group

This is an observation I hadn’t considered before, and it applies to a wider situation.

How does one treat items and creatures paid for through points when a character stays in one place long enough to create Shadows of themselves? I only remember specific mention of people casting Shadows, not items…

This bears thinking on.

Now, all this said, as a GM, you have free reign on your game to run it as you wish. You may think, based upon what I have said regarding my own GMing style, that as a GM, I am a bully. But … if you give your players whatever they want, without the consequinces or challenges that accompany such power, then inevitably there will come a ‘cold war’. After all, if the guys on either side of you are getting everything they want, merely by saying they are going out and getting it. Then why wouldn’t you do the same? Thus, your initial question was what we do to stop such situations. I make my players sweat and bleed for it, and if they truly want it, they will likely eventually get it. Then, they will learn what else it does…

-ChiefsFan, Amber Diceless RPG Yahoo!Group

This was part of a larger discussion of how to handle powerful (i.e., point-worthy) items in Amber, and how to keep it from getting out of hand.

The author of this particular post seems willing to call himself a bully for making the players work for stuff, but… I don’t really see it. As far as I’m concerned, you should only not have to work for Items and Creatures you purchase at game start. This isn’t because I’m worried at all about some kind of cold war – heaven knows Amberites are perfectly capable of manufacturing cold wars amongst themselves without ever bringing any more items in than what they already have – but because as I’ve already said, tools like that have costs. One of those is the process of acquisition; without working for it, do you really value it appropriately?

I’m not saying such things should be impossible to do, particularly if it’s something needed for plot. But I don’t care to run a game where everyone is The Golden Child Merlin, To Whom The Universe Hands Everything He Really Needs. (/snark)

Besides, having everything handed to you gets kind of boring after a while.

One other thing I would mention before ending my rather long rant, is that to a degree the GM must be somewhat adversarial with the players. The alternative is a Monty Haul campaign where anything can be had with minimal effort. It might be fun for the players at first, but after a while, they will grow bored. No challenges mean no sense of accomplishment. Of course I realize no one posting on this thread is suggesting that the GM not challenge the players, but powerful items should come at a price. Sure, the Elders are not sitting around just waiting for a chance to steal from the characters. However, there are more dangers to owning a powerful item then just Elder theft. The item itself will likely have side-effects associated with it’s use. The use of an item capable of functioning throughout shadow likely causes small ripples in shadow that are felt by those with the power to perceive disturbances or changes in shadow and those beings can be Elders, Lords of Chaos, powerful shadow beings who have themselves abilities to perceive such disturbances. Then of course, there are the actual Powers themselves, represented by the Serpent and the Unicorn. They set the ‘laws’ in their sphere of influence within shadow and would definitely resent having it’s ‘rules’ so disrupted. The power might in turn manipulate an Elder or one of the other previously mentioned beings to see that the item ceases to be such a disruption.

In the end, nothing is free and the players need to discover this just as we see Zelazny’s characters understanding this.

-ChiefsFan, Amber Diceless RPG Yahoo!Group

Posted with a general feeling of agreement. Guarded agreement, because “nothing is free” isn’t quite the right way to wrap one’s head around things in Amber, I don’t think – but still.

In writing a lot of this, I realize I approach Amber in a world-setting sort of way rather than focus on the players. To me, the rules need to conform to the world rather than serve to only limit the players in some sort of way. I still hold that rules are there to define the game itself and what the players can or can’t do. But the rules are there specifically to define what the world is like and the players would be limited that way, as well as everything else in existence.

-Michael Zack, Amber Diceless RPG Yahoo!Group

This is such a false dichotomy to me – not to mention that he pretty much contradicted himself there.

The rules define the world: absolutely.

The rules should not serve only to limit the players: huh? We’re… talking about the same game, right?

The players must work within the bounds of the world, or we’re playing free-form MUSH again, only we’re face to face with the other players and not staring at text on a screen.

This is what makes sense to me: The rules define the world. The players must work within those rules – the rules of the world, the rules of the game – to accomplish anything.

Breaking the rules means breaking the game – especially in Amber, where the rules are flimsy things already. And working within rules means limits. It means you can’t use the Pattern to ‘happen’ to have exact change in Amber. It means you can’t just stroll up to Wixer and give him a pat on the head, because the Primal plane is not that simple to get to. It means you can’t go up to Tir on any given night, no matter the condition of the moon.

Unless, of course, that’s part of the plot. But then it’s a plot point, not somethign the players have decided on just because it would be convenient, which seems to be what this guy is espousing.

This is the last of the thought-provoking snippets from the extended flamewar on the Amber Diceless RPG Yahoo!Group. Now back to your regular programming…